FYROM
- ACADEMICIANS CONTINUOUSLY AVOID HONEST DIALOGUE
www.Panmacedonia.net –
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At the beginning the
presentation of article publication of Pan-Macedonia Association.
Inc, we inform the all visitors – readers of
Apodimos.com that we accepted bad attack from specialized
hackers with big destructions in his software, for that reason and
provisionally the articles of
Apodimos.com will exist and in our node in
http://www.apodimos.co.uk/ and in very short time again the
Apodimos.com it will be for study in his known space.
Now we present this interesting placement of Pan-Macedonia Association.
Inc.
The politicians of FYROM
and particularly controlling this country that uses false the Greek name of
Macedonia do not have aim to discuss seriously for the name of country that
borders immediately on Greece and continuously they create problems. However
we could not imagine that also the academicians of FYROM would avoid
continuously the honest dialogue. We as
Apodimos.com we
believe that finally comes the end on 17 mockery
that makes the leadership of neighbouring
country in the problem that will use FYROM for her name while it would be
supposed as the UN intensification become discussions on discovery publics
acceptable solution for her name. And inform the
neighbouring country the Prime Minister of Greece and the Greek
political leadership it clarified that it cannot be an agreement in the
integration of FYROM in the NATO, and in the EU provided that we have still
not resolved the question of name of FYROM.
We inform our
visitors-reader, of portal Online magazine
Apodimos.com that
is informing all Greeks, our
Cypriote, Emigrant brothers for the last developments, the academicians of
FYROM they avoid continuously the honest dialogue, with a publication of
Pan-Macedonia Association. Inc, titled “FYROM ACADEMICIANS CONTINUOUSLY
AVOID HONEST DIALOGUE” who answers in the academicians of FYROM, with makes.
And propose in visitors-reader, of portal Online of magazine
Apodimos.com they
study also the previous articles of
Apodimos.com with
a view to we increase the makes that reports Pan-Macedonia Association.
Inc in her article.
AUGUST of
2004 with the
title
LETTER to
George W. Bush (President of the United States of America)
FROM Mr. N. MARTIS
(Former
Minister of Macedonia and Thrace.)
NOVEMBER
of 2004 with
the title
REGULAR BRIEFING of RICHARD BOUCHER, in
STATE DEPARTMENT BRIEFING ROOM, WASHINGTON, D.C., about the NEW NAME of
FYROM.
JULY of
2005 with the
title
TÇÅ
HELLENISM of the ANCIENT MACEDONIANS IS PROVED THROUGH THEIR ROOTS and from
THE ORIGIN OF THE MACEDONIAN ROYAL HOUSE.
Now our
visitors-reader, of portal Online magazine
Apodimos.com can
study the below article
FYROM ACADEMICIANS
CONTINUOUSLY AVOID HONEST DIALOGUE
The historically,
linguistically and archeologically incorrect challenges to Greece emanating
from Skopje that ancient Macedonian was not a part of the ancient Greek
world, but today’s FYROM’s inhabitants are the
direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians, has been exacerbated by
systematic and relentless propaganda for quite some time now.
On April 25, 2008 the
prestigious Smithsonian Residence Association Program presented
«A Glimpse into
Macedonia,
Past and Present»
by art
historian and «Macedonian» native, Aneta
Georgievska-Shine. The electronic
advertisement for this stated that Dr. Georgievska-Shine
will speak about her native, «Macedonia»:
«Home to exquisite Byzantine churches with
beautifully preserved frescoes and valuable icons, the
Republic of
Macedonia is a country of rich and complex cultural identity. From
antiquity, when Alexander the Great created an empire that reached as far
away as India, to the first decades of the 20th century, when this country
finally gained its present-day borders, Macedonia has been one of the most
contested geopolitical prizes in southeastern Europe».
We were somewhat
pleased that Dr. Georgievska-Shine presented a
rather generous Hellenistic view to the Ancient Macedonians and the
later Byzantine era, however, at numerous instances her subtle, well
planned, remarks and arguments left room for dispute. These remarks and
arguments that to the general audience appear as benign acceptable
conditions, actually hide behind them dangerous malignant propaganda. Dr.
Georgievska-Shine did refer to the FYROM
inhabitants as «Slav-Macedonians»
for most of her presentation but she subtly mentioned:
«Alexander I of Macedon was the first Macedonian
king to promote the adoption of the Attic culture.»
In addition, alluding to Alexander the Great’s
conquests, she mentioned: «Philip’s
son Alexander the Great created an even bigger empire, not only conquering
the rest of Greece but also seizing control of the Persian Empire, Egypt and
lands as far east as the fringes of India. He adopted and spread the Greek
culture in these territories. » If this claim
of «adoption» of the Greek language is true, thus alluding that the
Macedonians spoke something other that Greek and therefore were not part of
the then Greek world, then, at what point in his life did he «adopt»
the Greek name Alexander meaning «defender of man» and what was his name
prior to that point? If his father Phillip was not Greek, why did he also
have a Greek name meaning «friend of the horse»? At what point did Alexander
also «adopt» the Hellenic culture and religion that he spread to all ends of
the then known world? Why were the Macedonians allowed to take part in the
ancient Olympic Games that only Hellenes were allowed to participate in?
At the end of the
presentation the Smithsonian Residence Association organizers of the
conference allowed time for only one question and one comment.
The question asked was: «If the
Macedonians were Greek, as you mentioned during your presentation, what is
the relationship of today’s inhabitants of the FYROM with the ancient
Macedonians? On what historical and ethno-cultural basis do you make
the link of the modern day Slavs to Alexander? » Dr.
Georgievska-Shine’s reply was that
«…since the Macedonians were one of the most
powerful peoples in the region, the Slavs adopted elements of the most
dominant populace…in addition numerous conquerors took over the region that
those peoples did not exist any more.»
Someone from the audience
then replied
«Perhaps a lot of conquerors had settled on
the area for a while, but they came and went… Greeks can claim that they
have uninterruptedly been living in the same area, they talk a language that
linguistically derives from the same Greek language and have preserved
customs and features in the culture which come from antiquity,»
adding
«I find Dr Georgievka
Shine’s comments on the “adoption of the Attic Greek dialect” by Alexander I
the Macedon and by Alexander the Great fallacious, as the ancient
Macedonians had their own Greek-Doric (North-West Doric) dialect, which can
be attested by the Pella Katadesmos.»
Record note:
In 1986 a scroll was found in the area of Pella and published in the
Hellenic Dialectology Journal in
1993. It is known as the
Pella
katadesmos
or the curse of
Pella. It was written in
the mid 4th century BC.
According to the Journal «It is a magic spell
or love charm written by a woman, named Dagina,
whose lover Dionysophōn is apparently
about to marry Thetima.»
She invokes «Makron
and the demons» to cause Dionysophon
to marry her rather than Thetima. Professors
Olivier Masson in the Oxford Classical Dictionary and James L.
O’Neils from the University of Sidney,
both concur that «The language is a harsh
but distinctly recognizable form of North-West or Doric Greek, and the low
social status of its writer, as evidenced by her vocabulary and belief in
magic, strongly hint that a unique form of Doric Greek was spoken by lay
people in Pella at the time the tab was written. ».
We were not afforded the
opportunity to ask and discuss many other questions/arguments with Dr.
Georgievska Shine
as it is traditionally done in any academic environment, especially of the
caliber of the Smithsonian Institute, as the program coordinators of the
aforementioned institute cut us off with the excuse that the hall had to be
readied for a different event. Furthermore, the speaker appeared to have
been rushed off through an unseen exit, not event giving us the chance to
have a few minutes of casual conversation with her. We met with a few of the
Smithsonian coordinators just outside of the lecture hall for some time and
expressed our concerns but during this time we did not see anyone making any
sorts of preparation in the lecture hall.
Dr.
Georgievska Shine during her presentation mentioned:
«The Slavs of the Ottoman
Macedonia were members of the Orthodox millet according to the Ottoman
administration system that recognized religious and not national identities.
They declared themselves largely as Christians.
»
.
Record note:
Even though we were not given the opportunity to reply to Dr.
Georgievska-Shine during the question/answer
period, we would urge her to note that the census by
Hilmi Pasha in 1906 refers to
various ethnicities in
that area; however there is no mention of any
«Macedonians.»
423,000 41.71%
Muslims (Turks
and Albanians)
259,000 27.30%
Greeks
178,000 18.81%
Bulgarians
13,150 1.39%
Serbs
73,000 7.72%
others
We also like her to note
that during the Ottoman era there was no use of the term Macedonia (meaning
the boundaries of the geographic or ancient Macedonia). Macedonia was
divided in two vilaets; the
vilaet of Thessaloniki and the vilaet of
Monastiri (Bitola). Skopje, the present capital
of FYROM, was in a separate vilaet, the
Kossovo vilaet with
Skopje as its capital also. The Kossovo
vilaet was outside of and was never any part of
the so-called geographic Macedonia. Dr. Georgievska-Shine
should also note that the percentages she mentioned that were received by
the countries that liberated the area from the Ottomans-«Greece
received 52%», «Macedonia» 38%,
and Bulgaria 10%,” do not correspond to historic
Macedonia, but to the area liberated from the Turks by the four
allies (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro). That is, the area that was
liberated was the area of the Ottoman vilaets of
which the geographic Macedonia was a part of and a smaller portion of the
whole liberated area. Actually Greece received 70% of the
historic geographic Macedonia. About 3/5 of today’s FYROM, never belonged to
ancient Macedonia, including its capital, Skopje, as this part was in the
Kossovo vilaet
which, as mentioned, was outside of the geographic Macedonian area.
Dr. Georgievska-Shine
stated:
«Vardar
Macedonia incorporated into Serbia and referred to as South Serbia. The
easternmost part of Macedonia ceded to Bulgaria (Pirin Macedonia). The
southern part (Aegean Macedonia) incorporated into Greece and referred to as
northern Greece.»
.
Record note:
The
liberation of present day Greece from the Ottomans did not happen
simultaneously in all former Greek territories, but it happened in different
stages. In 1912-13, parts of Macedonia and Epirus were liberated. Since then
Macedonia
has been
called as such. In fact, the first administrator in Thessaloniki in 1913 was
called
«governor
of Macedonia»
he
term Northern Greece was ONLY for the Greek Ministry in Thessaloniki,
because it included the region of Thrace as well. The Treaty of Bucharest on
August 10, 1913 only set the borders of Bulgaria and its neighbors. It did
not split
«Ìacedonia»
many FYROM sources are claiming. It did however split relevant Turkish
vilayets.
The area that
later comprised of the former Yugoslavia's southern republic was not called
Macedonia but it bore the name of Vardarska Banovina (Province -of the
river- Vardar). It was in 1944 that Marshal Joseph Broz Tito, the
communist dictator ruling Yugoslavia at that time, created Yugoslavia's
southern republic and called it
«People’s
Republic of Macedonia»
and in 1963
«Socialist
Republic of Macedonia»
for purely political and expansionist reasons.
Record note:
It is not the first time that American citizens of Macedonian/Greek descent,
members of the Pan-Macedonian Association USA, observed their history being
falsified, and their right to defend their ancestral history
in prestigious academic institutions denied, right in their homeland!! On
September 20, 2003, a symposium, titled
«The
Importance of Ilinden in the Awakening of Macedonian National Consciousness»,
took place in the School of Journalism, Columbia University, and was
sponsored by the Harriman Institute of Columbia Univeristy, the East Central
European Center and the Macedonian Arts Council. It had as its main theme
the anniversary of the Ilinden revolt against the Turkish rule in the
Balkans. Mr. Kiro Gligorov, the former President of the FYROM, was the main
speaker.
The theme of Mr.
Gligorov's speech was
«Macedonia
from Ilinten until Now».
Other participants in the discussion were Dr. Nadine
Akhund, from Columbia University, addressing
1903 Seen Through
the Eyes of
Europe,
Dr. Duncan Perry, 1903-The
Ilinden Uprising and its Legacy.
Mr. Blaze Ristovski from the Macedonian
Academy of Science and Arts (MANU) introduced
Macedonia
in 1903 and Dr.
Andrew Rossos from the University of Toronto
spoke on Macedonian National Consciousness
in 1903.
Dr.
Nantine Akhurd, who received her
doctorate at the University of Sorbonne, France, spoke first. She addressed
the events that occurred in 1903 in Macedonia. She came to certain
conclusions from the research she did, based on the correspondence of
various European diplomats of that time. She read certain letters of
diplomats and at the end she concluded that the Turks did not keep accurate
records, «therefore it is difficult to
calculate the exact number of the ethnicities that existed in the
Turkish-occupied
Macedonia.
However from the correspondence of the diplomats we can assume the most
prevailing nationalities were Slavic, Bulgarian and Serbian. In addition
there were French, German and Italian companies in
Salonik».
No mention at all about the Greek element in the area!!
The rest of the
academicians spoke and all of them praised and glorified the
Ilinden uprising, from which even though
it was not successful, «Macedonia»
emerged as an international issue, which resulted in the awakening of the
"Macedonian" national consciousness. No one mentioned that this uprising was
staged by the Bulgarians and the Bulgarians were inviting all the
nationalities in the area, even the peasant Turkish population, to revolt
against the Sultan. No one pointed out that the Manifesto of
Krushevo was written in Bulgarian. None of
the academicians revealed that during the revolt, with
Krushevo as its epicenter, the Turks who had been bribed by the
Bulgarians exterminated the Greek population and the Hellenized
Vlachs of Krushevo.
No one mentioned that 366 Greek homes and 203 Greek shops were destroyed by
the vengeance of the Turks and Bulgarians. The Slavs, today's
self-proclaimed «Macedonians»
, were coerced to finance the "revolution", but
as soon as they found the chance, they escaped to the mountains
(Douglas Dakin).
Dr. Duncan Perry
in his book The Politics of Terror: The
MacEdonian Liberation Movement, 1893-1904,
identified this uprising as an act of terror. It is not known under
which circumstances he changed his opinion and why during the deliverance of
his theme he concluded that the Ilinten
revolution «awakened the "Macedonian"
national consciousness».
A translator read Mr.
Blaze Ristovski's lecture. King Philip,
Alexander the Great, as well as Cyril and Methodius were depicted as
"Macedonian" personas. Following a ten-minute break, Mr. Herbert S.
Okun, former American Ambassador to UN,
introduced the keynote speaker, the former President of the FYROM, Mr.
Kiro Gligorov. The
American former Ambassador named Mr. Gligorov as
the "peace-maker" of the Balkans and the "George Washington" of "Macedonia",
since under his direction "Macedonia" was able to face various problems such
as the problems with the Serbian Church, problems with the Albanians and
issues with Greece about the name".
A copy of Mr.
Gligorov's address translated into English
was
distributed to the audience, since the former President spoke in
«Macedonian».
Some college students, sitting near us, explained that they were
Bulgarians, they however could understand everything that Mr. Gligorov was
saying (but don't the FYROM people insist that their language is the
same language that Alexander the Great and his
«Macedonian»
soldiers were
using to communicate?). Mr. Gligorov's speech lasted for two hours and he
continuously was receiving messages from various individuals. In the
beginning we thought that individuals in charge of the symposium were trying
to urge him to be brief, but as it became apparent, they were rather urging
him to do otherwise. Thus reaching the end of his lecture there was
no time for the academically established etiquette of "questions and answer
period" between panelists and audience, especially in such an institution of
higher learning as
Columbia
University.
From various articles
written previously there were a number of voices that advocated
contradictory theories about the origins of the FYROM inhabitants. Here are
some testimonies from The FYROM’s officials:
The former President of
The FYROM, Kiro
Gligorov said:
«We are Slavs who came to this area in the
sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians»
(Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26,
1992, p. 35).
Also,
Mr Gligorov declared:
«We are Macedonians but we are Slav
Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek
and his
Macedonia…
Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century»
(Toronto Star, March 15, 1992).
On 22 January 1999,
Ambassador of the FYROM to
USA,
Ljubica Achevska gave a speech on the
present situation in the Balkans.
In answering questions at the end of her speech Mrs.
Acevshka said: «We do not claim
to be descendants of Alexander the Great …
Greece is
Macedonia’s second largest trading partner, and its number one investor.
Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United
Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr.
Nemitz.»
In reply to another
question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador
Achevska stated that
«we are Slavs and we speak a Slavic language».
On 24 February 1999, in
an interview with the «Ottawa Citizen»,
Gyordan Veselinov,
FYROM'S Ambassador to
Canada, admitted,
«We are not related to the northern Greeks
who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slavic
people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian». He
also commented, «There is some confusion
about the identity of the people of my country. »
In addition, the
Foreign Minister of the FYROM, Slobodan Casule,
in an interview to Utrinski
Vesnik of
Skopje
on December 29, 2001, said that he mentioned to the Foreign Minister of
Bulgaria,
Solomon Pasi
that they «belong to the same Slav people. »
Conclusion:
Consequently, the plethora of questions, including questions about
FYROM’s officials testifying their no-relation
to ancient Macedonians that we had, remained unanswered in both prestigious
US institutions of higher learning. Both were unacceptable incidents for the
caliber of such institutions.
We consider that
Columbia
University and the
prestigious Smithsonian Institution were unknowingly used by the FYROM
propagandistic entities to further their quest to legitimize the usurpation
of the Macedonian name, history, and culture while negotiations for
resolution of these are ongoing between FYROM and Greece. Since we, and the
general audience, were not afforded the opportunity to ask questions and to
have a full discussion of the subject matter presented by Dr.
Georgievska-Shine at the Smithsonian on April
25, 2008, we consider that the Smithsonian Institution should afford the
opportunity for a presentation at the institute from the Hellenic
perspective.
Cc.
1.
Barbara
Tuceling, Director of Smithsonian Resident
Associate Program
2.
Francine C.
Berkowitz, Office of International Relations SRAP
3.
Fay Dale
Browning, Program Manager-Education and Cultural Program Smithsonian Assoc.
4.
Senator
Robert Menendez
5.
Senator
Barack Obama
6.
Senator
Olympia Snowe
7.
Senator Carl
Levin
8.
Senator
Debbie Stabenow
9.
Congressman
Gus Bilirakis
10.
Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney
Source:
http://www.panmacedonia.net/fyrom_academicians_dialogue.htm
