REGULAR BRIEFING of RICHARD BOUCHER, in STATE DEPARTMENT BRIEFING ROOM, WASHINGTON, D.C., about the NEW NAME of FYROM.

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STATE DEPARTMENT REGULAR BRIEFING

BRIEFER:  RICHARD BOUCHER, DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN

LOCATION: STATE DEPARTMENT BRIEFING ROOM, WASHINGTON, D.C.

TIME:  1:11 P.M. EST

DATE:  THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2004

 

 MR. BOUCHER:  Now, what was the question?  Macedonia.

QUESTION: After you read the guidance, could you tell us why you've decided to do it?

MR. BOUCHER:  I'll explain why we decided to do it and -- tell you what we decided to do and why we decided to do it.

First, what we decided to do.  We have now decided to refer to Macedonia officially as the Republic of Macedonia.  By recognizing Macedonia's chosen constitutional name, we wish to underscore the U.S. commitment to a permanent, multiethnic, democratic Macedonian state within its existing borders.  The United States, the EUROPEAN Union and NATO have been working for years to bring lasting stability to the Balkans.  The key to Macedonia's future remains the Ohrid framework agreement signed by Macedonia's major political party leaders in 2001. Macedonia's multiethnic government coalition has worked to finish implementing this agreement, and the final pieces are now being put into place.  Macedonia's leadership has made a courageous decision to carry through with decentralization, as mandated by the framework agreement.  We want to support its efforts to that end as part of our support for Macedonia moving closer to EUROPE and to NATO and EU membership.  

Macedonia's success is in our interests and in the interests of all its neighbors.  Macedonia is an important and steadfast partner of the United States in the global war on terrorism, contributing troops to coalition efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

         We've taken our decision on Macedonia's name without prejudice to the negotiations under U.N. auspices, that have been ongoing since 1993, on differences between Macedonia and GREECE over the name.  

We hope those talks will reach a speedy and mutually agreeable conclusion.

QUESTION: Okay.  Oh, go.  Go ahead.

QUESTION: Well, I thought you said you wanted to go.

QUESTION: No, no, no.  It's okay.  Go ahead.  I got some more later.

QUESTION: Well, I -- and was it -- I guess I'm just not sure.  Why did you decide to take this decision to make this -- I understand it was made by the secretary yesterday.

MR. BOUCHER:  Yeah.

QUESTION: Why now?  Does it have anything to do with the referendum on Sunday?

MR. BOUCHER:  I think it was the day before yesterday.

QUESTION: Does it have anything to do with --

QUESTION: Referendum or --

QUESTION: But does it have anything to do with whatever --

QUESTION: Election Day?  You said it on Election Day?

MR. BOUCHER:  No.  I'm sorry; yesterday.

QUESTION: Yesterday?

MR. BOUCHER:  Yes.

QUESTION: Does it have anything to do with the election there, the referendum on Sunday?  Are you trying to --

MR. BOUCHER:  The --

QUESTION: What?

QUESTION: (Off mike.)

MR. BOUCHER:  Okay.  We think that this is the appropriate time to make this step.  It's something that we have obviously kept under advisement for a long time, something that, as you know, has been in the air, under discussion, people encouraged us to do or not to do. The fact that the referendum is coming up is part of the equation.  We are certainly looking for ways to support the full implementation of the Ohrid agreements, including the decentralization that's so important to that, and we felt, therefore, this was the appropriate time to take the step.

QUESTION:  And was it -- is it -- was it worth the wrath of GREECE to do this right now?  I mean, the timing of this, as the first foreign policy decision since the reelection of the president, would seem to indicate that you really have no qualms at all about antagonizing a NATO ally, that we're -- in a situation which had been stable with the status quo.  And you know, this -- it's really a symbolic decision. It doesn't really affect your relations with MACEDONIA except that they're happy, but it does affect your relations with GREECE.  And given the fact that the secretary's canceled now three times trips to GREECE, I was just wondering if -- was the equation made that it was worth it -- U.S. -- it was worth -- it was in the interests of the United States to really infuriate GREECE over this at the current time?

MR. BOUCHER:  First of all, the United States understands GREEK feelings about the matter.  We have pointed out, as the secretary pointed out in his conversation this morning with the GREEK foreign minister, that the decision is not a turn against GREECE.  It's not linked to the U.S. election in any way.  It's not the first -- it's not designed to be the first decision after the U.S. election or anything like that.  It's a moment where we thought it was important to find ways to express our support for the full implementation of the Ohrid agreements, for the continuation of the process that has brought stability to MACEDONIA and to its neighbors, and that this was one way of doing that at this juncture.

And that's what we decided to do.  It's not directed against any other country.  It's not timed in any fashion to relate to the U.S. election or anything that's -- some other third party is doing.

It's just we felt it an appropriate and correct step at this juncture to express our support for the implementation of the agreements that MACEDONIA has reached.

 Okay, we'll work to the back.

QUESTION:  Before we do that, we can we do one other substantive one?

QUESTION: Who's --

QUESTION:  Can you go back to --

MR. BOUCHER:  Let's slow down.  We'll do here, and then we'll go to the two gentlemen in the back.

QUESTION: Can you go back to your statement that the upcoming referendum in MACEDONIA was indeed part of your calculus.  Can you just make clear what exactly you're trying to do with that?  Are you essentially trying to strengthen the government's argument that the protections for minorities within MACEDONIA should be maintained and extended?  Is that what you're trying to do with --

MR. BOUCHER:  We're trying to demonstrate -- we're trying to express our support for the full implementation of these agreements, including the decentralization.  It's an important part of it.  And that is one of the subjects covered in the referendum.  We're trying to show that the path that the government has followed brings stability, brings acceptance, and brings recognition in the world for MACEDONIA and support for the path that it's been following in terms of implementation of the Ohrid agreements.  And so this is one of the steps that we thought was appropriate to demonstrate that.

QUESTION: There's no way you can say that without reference to the sort of jargon of the Ohrid agreement, I mean so that the average person understands what you're talking about?

MR. BOUCHER:  I think, first of all, the average person in MACEDONIA probably -- and in the region probably does understand these agreements a lot better than I do. 

But the point is to show support for a multiethnic society in MACEDONIA as they proceed in a direction that we feel contributes to their own stability and the stability of the region.  And by taking this step, in terms of recognizing MACEDONIA under its chosen name, we feel we bolster that progress.

QUESTION:  I was going to ask you how this supports multiethnic understanding by choosing a name that both the populace and a next- door neighbor thinks is the wrong thing to do?

MR. BOUCHER:  This is the name that MACEDONIA -- that the government and the people of MACEDONIA have chosen for their country, and that's the name that we will recognize them under.

QUESTION: Did the foreign minister call the secretary or was it reversed?  Do you know?

QUESTION: (Off mike) -- calls related to this?

MR. BOUCHER:  Our ambassador in GREECE has talked to the foreign minister.  And then this morning, the secretary called the foreign minister as well to talk to him.  We've been in touch with the GREEK government at other levels, people with their counterparts, principally through the embassy.  We've also, obviously, been discussing the matter with the government of MACEDONIA.  Our ambassador in MACEDONIA, in Skopje, met with the MACEDONIAn president this morning and just told him of the decision.

And then we've been in touch with other people who are interested, on the Hill, I think we've been in touch with Javier Solana in the EUROPEan Union, people like that, NATO secretary-general, others who might be interested in our decision.

QUESTION:  Richard --

MR. BOUCHER:  Can I go to the gentleman in the back, who has been anxious and eager.

QUESTION: Any consultation, prior to this decision, with the EUROPEan Union?

MR. BOUCHER:  Certainly this is a topic that we've handled over a long period of time in conjunction with the EUROPEan Union, and we've had a lot of discussions with the EUROPEan Union about the MACEDONIA name, the GREEK -- question of MACEDONIA and GREECE.  So it is certainly a subject that both they and we are familiar with.  In terms of the actual decision to do this, we have been in touch -- we were in touch with the EUROPEan Union to tell them of the decision.

QUESTION: Otherwise the EUROPEan Union is agreeing with your policy to this point?

MR. BOUCHER:  You'll have to --

QUESTION: Excuse me?

MR. BOUCHER:  You'll have to ask the EUROPEan Union what their position is.

QUESTION: No, no.  You made the statement.  You said that you have discussed this matter a long time and you -- (inaudible) -- tell.  So I'm glad to know what the EUROPEan Union stated about this?

MR. BOUCHER:  I'm sorry.  If you want to ask what the opinion of the EUROPEan Union is, you'll have to ask a spokesman for the EUROPEan Union.

QUESTION: No, no, I'm saying your consultation on your --

MR. BOUCHER:  You can ask 20 times.  If you want the EUROPEan position, you have to ask a spokesman for the EUROPEans.

QUESTION: Why did you totally --

QUESTION: (Off mike) -- ask them?  Did you ask the EUROPEan Union whether they agree about it, with it, or did you just notify them what you're doing?

MR. BOUCHER:  As I said, we told the EUROPEan -- we were in contact with the EUROPEan Union to tell them of our decision.

QUESTION: In advance?

QUESTION: And why did you --

MR. BOUCHER:  Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was in advance.

QUESTION: Why did you totally ignore the U.N. talks and proceeded unilaterally yesterday?  Any communication or consultation with the U.N. negotiator, Matthew Nimitz, prior to that?

MR. BOUCHER:  I know we were in touch with him.  I don't know the exact timing on it.  But the point I think we make, this is a decision the United States made because we believe it's the appropriate decision at this time for policy that we want to pursue, that we want to show support for the path that is being followed by the government in MACEDONIA towards more stability and a multiethnic society.  At the same time, we would certainly welcome any progress that can be made in the U.N. discussions and would accept the outcome of those discussions if MACEDONIA and GREECE and the U.N. work out -- you know, can work things out.  And we certainly would hope those talks would reach a speedy and a mutually agreeable conclusion.

QUESTION: Do you recognize the so-called (code ?), MACEDONIAn ethnicity, nationality and language, on (code ?)?

MR. BOUCHER:  Those issues are, I think, dealt with in the agreements.  I don't have anything different to say here.

QUESTION: Did you have consultation prior with -- besides with Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia and Montenegro?

MR. BOUCHER:  Not that I'm aware of, no.  

Sir.  

QUESTION: According to the Greeks, you didn't tell them that you are ready to recognize FYROM, that you didn't have any consultation with them.  It seems to me that you consulted with everybody except the Greeks.  

MR. BOUCHER:  I don't think I've described any particular -- I mean, it depends on how -- what you describe as consultations.  I think I've tried to be frank with you and say that this is certainly a subject where we've talked many times with many people, and people know our views.  We've all discussed the pros and cons of this kind of step, and certainly the secretary is personally very familiar with the issues -- been dealing with it for many, many years.  And so I think we all sort of know the pros and cons.  We balance the views.  But this was a decision that the United States took because we thought it was the appropriate decision to us, and for those who we've been in touch with in the last 24 hours or so, we've really been telling them about our decision, not --  

QUESTION: But not before.

MR. BOUCHER:  -- engaging in some further consultation.  

QUESTION: Not before the 24 hours.  For example, did secretary discuss it with the foreign minister of Greece in New York in September?  

MR. BOUCHER:  No, I don't think it came up there.  

QUESTION: There is a feeling in Greece that you want to punish them. Do you have a comment on that?

MR. BOUCHER:  I think I've said, and I'll make absolutely clear once again, as the secretary did in his phone call with the Greek foreign minister this morning, that this step is being done because we think it's the right thing to support a path of stability and openness and democracy in Macedonia.  It's not a decision that's made in any way with reference to neighbors or other countries.  But we do think

 it's a decision that can help support a path that has brought more stability to Macedonia and to the region.  

QUESTION: How long has this been being batted around?  I noticed that as recently as October 14th you were up here on the podium saying that the name is the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and that any references to it in U.S. official documents or otherwise -- to it as simply Macedonia or the Republic of Macedonia were mistakes, were errors.  

MR. BOUCHER:  No, I didn't say they were errors.  I said they were --

QUESTION: Well, you said it was shorthand.  

MR. BOUCHER:  Shorthand, yeah.

QUESTION: In response to a question, you said that the department had gone back and corrected the transcript of a briefing -- 

MR. BOUCHER:  That was a transcript that said "formerly" known as instead of "formally" known as --

QUESTION: (Off mike.)

MR. BOUCHER:  -- an index.  So that was a mistake.  It was not consistent with the policy at the time. 

QUESTION: Okay.  So on October 14th, when you said that the official name was the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, was the review under way?          

MR. BOUCHER:  This is not the product of some formal committee review process.  This was a policy recommendation that was arrived at by consultations with different people in the department, in -- I don't know exactly when they started discussing it, but the decision was just made in the last few days, yesterday.

QUESTION:  Was it a hard decision to make?

MR. BOUCHER:  It was a -- as any decision, it has a lot of factors that have to be weighed.

QUESTION:  So I assume there were people who thought maybe you shouldn't do this.  Is that -- you've been very candid, but can you go that one step further and say there were people who thought this was --

MR. BOUCHER:  No, I can't because I'm not aware of anybody who said don't.  They just looked at it and said is it -- should we do this now, and they discussed the pros and cons and reached agreement on doing it and made a recommendation to the secretary.

QUESTION: When was the first time Greece was told of the decision, and at what level?

QUESTION: Our ambassador told the Greek -- I think foreign minister if not his office -- if not him, then his office -- yesterday afternoon our time.

Yes?

QUESTION: Well, is this -- were these discussions that you did a preemptive notification of them, this is what we're planning to do? Or did they hear that you have done this and then they called you and you gave them an explanation? I mean --

MR. BOUCHER:  We called people up and said we've made a decision, here's what we're going to do.

QUESTION: The Greeks?

MR. BOUCHER:  Yeah.

QUESTION: Richard, your reference to you weighing different factors in response to Barry's question, can we not assume from that that you decided that the anger and the hostility that you're facing right now from the Greeks was more than overcome by whatever benefit you think is going to -- this is going to give to the Macedonians?

MR. BOUCHER:  It's not just a two-part equation, so I can't really phrase it the way you did.  I tried to phrase it earlier in my own way by saying we were certainly aware of the likely reaction in Greece.

QUESTION: And --

MR. BOUCHER:  And we have, I think, tried to go out of our way to make clear to the Greek government and the Greek people that this is not a decision that's any way directed at them or intended to offend them.  It's what we felt was the right thing to continue a progress of stability in the region.

QUESTION: Okay.  And as you have said, this is a U.S. decision.  It's a unilateral decision, which of course is completely contradictory with all of your multilateral efforts in every other area of diplomacy for the past four years.  And I'm wondering, what does this mean, if anything, for how the country is referred to not at the U.N., where the negotiations are under way, but at NATO for example, where everything has to be footnoted or asterisked to refer to Macedonia as FYROM?  Do you envision trying to bring NATO around to -- or do you just think that that's hopeless because the Greeks, who have been in NATO for a long time and who are supposedly your good friends, would object?

MR. BOUCHER:  This is not a decision intended to disrupt our very positive work with Greece in -- bilaterally as well as multilaterally.

It's not a decision intended to in any way disrupt the smooth workings of NATO.  And I expect that we'll continue cooperation there, as appropriate, with the government of GREECE, which remains one of our best allies.  

            Exactly how we will handle questions of language in footnoting and other documents, I don't have an answer for you at this point. But the United States, when we refer to the country, will refer to it as the Republic of MACEDONIA.

QUESTION: But you do acknowledge that while it's not intended to disrupt the relationship, that it has, don't you?

MR. BOUCHER:  I would say what I've said before.  We understand there are some strong feelings about this, and that's why we have tried to make very, very clear it's not directed against any other nation.

QUESTION: Well, you may have tried to make that clear, Richard, but there are a lot of angry people in GREECE.

MR. BOUCHER:  Well, Matt, I'm trying to make it clear right now, and I'll do it again through you, the able representatives of the press, who I'm sure will report to the people in GREECE, that this is not directed in any way against them.

QUESTION: Well, yeah, but that's all well and good for you to say that.  But I just want to make sure you understand, you've taken into account the GREEK reaction to this, what you knew would be the GREEK reaction to it --

MR. BOUCHER:  We understand the feelings in GREECE, yes.

QUESTION: -- and decided that it was still the right thing to do.  So --

MR. BOUCHER:  We understand the feelings in GREECE.  And for a variety of reasons, we decided this was the right thing to do.

Sir?

QUESTION: Mr. Boucher, according to a map in my possession, appeared in the U.S. Marine Corps Country Handbook, November 2003, under the title, quote, "MACEDONIAn Occupation," unquote, includes, unfortunately, the entire GREEK MACEDONIA with a very, very provocative and undiplomatic full-page text against the territorial integrity of GREECE.  I was told yesterday by a DOD source that this map was drafted during the era of Mr. Holbrooke when he was undersecretary for EUROPEan Affairs in 1999, and it's still valid even today.  And it was also verified by Ambassador Nicholas Burns to a group of GREEK Americans who were visited by him to the departure from ATHENS to Brussels.  And it was also confirmed to the same group by a DOS official -- I have his name -- saying to them specifically, "Nothing has been changed," quote, unquote. Any explanation, since the text of this language is a diplomatic one, and you told us the other day that U.S. Department of State has the last word in any diplomatic exchanges?

MR. BOUCHER:  I think you just had the last word.

QUESTION: No, no, no.  

MR. BOUCHER:  This is a Marine handbook --

QUESTION: Yes.  It's -- it's -- that's correct.  It's country --

MR. BOUCHER:  -- with a map that you think was drafted by Mr. Holbrooke?

QUESTION: Country handbook, MACEDONIA, United States --

MR. BOUCHER:  I'm sorry, I can't account for something in a Marine handbook.  I assume -- almost every map I've seen that the U.S. government produces has a footnote on it saying this is not the definitive statement of borders or recognition issues.

I don't know if there is such a footnote on it or not, but I'm not going to be able to account for every map in a Marine handbook.

QUESTION:  No, I'm saying when the Department of Defense is drafting a document, something like that, I know it's coming from the --

MR. BOUCHER:  I, frankly, don't know where they get their -- I don't know where they get their maps from.

QUESTION:  Who is in charge of choosing the diplomatic language, you or the DOD?

MR. BOUCHER:  It could be from the Defense Mapping Agency.  I don't, frankly, know where they get their maps.

QUESTION: And why they are saying "MACEDONIAn occupation," quote, unquote?

MR. BOUCHER:  I'm not going to tell you about the Marine Corps handbook.   You're going to have to ask the Marine Corps about that one.

QUESTION: One more.  Mr. Boucher, how do you explain the fact that the U.S. government totally ignored the policy expressed by the former secretary of State once upon a time, stating on December 26th, 1944, who first opened our eyes, saying inter alia, quote, "The Department of State has noted with considerable apprehension that autonomous MACEDONIA would have implication and GREEK territory would be included in the projected state.  The U.S. government considers talks," quote, "of MACEDONIAn 'nation,'" unquote, comma, quote, "MACEDONIAn 'motherland,'" unquote, comma, or, quote, "MACEDONIAn 'national consciousness,'" unquote, "to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality" and sees that as a "possible cloak for aggressive intentions against the territorial integrity of GREECE." Unquote.   Any comment, since you are making this decision today?

MR. BOUCHER:  First, what date was it in 1944?

QUESTION: It was December 26th, 1944.  That's your policy.

MR. BOUCHER:  Okay, almost 60 years ago, right?

QUESTION: So what?

MR. BOUCHER:  Well -- (laughter) -- I -- first of all, I'd note there have been some changes in EUROPE -- there have been some changes in EUROPE in the last 60 years.  There is a nation known as MACEDONIA, which we have decided to call by the name that they have chosen for themselves, as the Republic of MACEDONIA.  I think you are as familiar as I am of the fact that this nation, these leaders, this government have expressed many, many times that they have no territorial aspirations; their use of the name "MACEDONIA" for themselves does not have any implications for any neighbors or neighboring territories or people.  That is certainly a policy the United States has maintained, that they have maintained, and we don't see that those factors that were discussed 60 years ago come into play in any way with our decision today.

QUESTION: Was there anything that -- was there any reference to GREEK territory in the ambassador's discussions, in the secretary's discussion?  You obviously don't think there's any need to tell them that.

MR. BOUCHER:  I don't think the issue -- the issue does not arise.  This is merely a question of how we will call a country -- of whether we call this country by the name they have chosen for themselves in their constitution.

QUESTION: So the GREEKs have no basis for any anxiety about the GREEK MACEDONIA?

MR. BOUCHER: As we have said, we think that the process underway in MACEDONIA has been a very positive one not only for that nation, but for the region, and that in fact it has brought stability to the region.

Do we have more back there, or not?  Moving right along?

QUESTION: One more.  What was your response to the GREEK protest, which has been filed today by the GREEK foreign minister, Petros Molyviatis, to your ambassador, your esteemed ambassador to GREECE, Tom Miller?

MR. BOUCHER:  Our ambassador has spoken to the GREEK foreign minister twice; once yesterday, once today.  And then the secretary spoke to the foreign minister again today.  We understand GREEK concerns, but we also explained why we think this is the appropriate decision at this time.  And second of all, we explained that this is not a step that's directed against any third country.

Yeah?

QUESTION: The government of MACEDONIA, as you call it, received yesterday the recognitions that they wanted from the United States. Why in your opinion they are going to continue the talks with GREECE to change their name?

MR. BOUCHER:  I think we're all interested in stability and harmony in the region.  To the extent that these are issues that different people in the region feel strongly about, we would hope that they can be worked out.  We think that they would too.